Difference between pages "Donovan V. Elliott Jr Military Service" and "The Apostasy at the End of Days"

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Having been born deaf in one ear, [[Donovan_Elliott#Military_Service|Donovan Elliott]] (or Duff), was physically ineligible for military service, but a strong family tradition of service in the United States military caused him to seek enlistment anyway, first in the Navy and then the Army. He was however rejected because of his disability.  Nevertheless, the Selective Service System apparently did not take note of these rejections, for one day late in 1965 he received a draft notice, and was directed to report for processing at the Los Angeles military induction center. Believing it to be a mistake or a waste of time, he ignored the letter. Much later, when a second letter showed up telling him to report to the Santa Ana, California, draft board, he showed up expecting to be rejected, again. Apparently, because he had ignored the first letter they took him. He was officially inducted into the service on 14 June 1965.
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The website Quora.com was created as a kind of Q&A site where people can ask questions and be answered by those are interested to answer. There are a lot of questions on that site that ask rather disingenuous questions about controversial topics, including about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The following is one such that I answered. To see my answer on Quora itself, follow this link: [https://www.quora.com/Did-you-know-that-the-Bible-says-that-toward-the-end-of-times-there-will-be-false-religions-like-Latter-Day-Saints/answer/Mike-Clark-153 Quora.com]
  
He later told me, in jest I hope, that the sole physical exam being performed that day was a check to see if you could fog a mirror, in which case you were IN.  For they decided that he could serve after all!  And so he was inducted into the US Army, and  What I suspect is this: they checked his ears and decided that since he had been given a draft notice, well, he must be faking the deafness.  That's my theory, anyway.
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==The Question==
  
===Enlistment and Training===
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'''Did you know that the Bible says that toward the end of times there will be false religions like Latter Day Saints?'''
  
Upon induction into the Army, he was sent off to Fort Bliss, Texas to be trained as an Air Defense Artilleryman. He was trained as a Hawk Missile Fire Control Crewman (MOS Code: 16E). The Hawk was a medium range, radar-guided, surface-launched anti-aircraft missile that mainly served as a "just in case" defensive weapon in Viet Nam, as enemy aircraft south of the so-called DMZ were virtually non-existent.  Duffy spent his entire career as an air defense artilleryman driving and maintaining ground vehicles, something at which he excelled.
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==My Answer==
  
===No Time for Sergeants===
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The Book of Revelation in the Bible referred to the churches in Asia, and had warnings against apostasy to say about every one of them.
  
Duff did not take kindly to this roundabout way of getting him into the service, and ever afterward he maintained a rather disgusted attitude about the whole thing.  Nevertheless, his ability as a backyard mechanic and driver was recognized, and rather than ship him off to Vietnam or some other place, he was assigned to be the official driver of a US Army colonel at Fort Bliss.  This plum duty made it possible for him to enjoy life in the Army rather more than would be expected as a one-striper, and his Colonel also apparently liked him a great deal.  So he had it madeUntil one fine day.
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The point is, the church organization that existed by the time John the Revelator wrote down the words of the Apocalypse of John (another name for the Book of Revelation), did not include the Catholic or the Orthodox churches, the Baptists, the Presbyterians, the Methodists, the Lutherans, or any of those othersThey quite simply didn’t exist yet.
  
It was on a Friday in May 1966, the start of a weekend, and he and his buddies had been drinking when he decided that he wanted to introduce his friends to his Mom's home cooking in Garden Grove, California, some thousand miles distant.  And off they went.  By the time they arrived in Garden Grove, the weekend was half over.  Their arrival surprised his mother greatly, and worriedly she asked him if he had been given a pass to be off post (the Army was a little stricter about such things in those days), and upon discovering that this adventure was completely without permission, she hurriedly fixed them a good meal and sent them packing, back to Fort Bliss.  And they almost made it.  They were approaching the Texas border in the wee hours of Monday morning, probably speeding a bit to make sure they made it back in time for morning formation, when a New Mexico law officer pulled them over.  He recognized them immediately as soldiers out of uniform, and, inquiring about passes, discovered they were AWOL.  They ended up being taken into custody and held for the Military Police.
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So it should be apparent that if there were to be false religions as the Lord in Matthew 24:24 indicates:
  
===No More Easy Duty===
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''For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.''
  
[[File:USARV Shoulder Patch.png|thumb|100px|United States Army Republic of Vietnam (USARV)]]
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…any of the post-John Christian churches that grew up could in fact be false religions, in the terms of Matthew 24:24. And you can’t even use the Nicene Creed to distinguish true from false, because that creed was developed by a council of bishops and others who lived hundreds of years after John. How could you know whether they themselves did not constitute a false religion? Merely because they are accepted as authoritative? And by whom?
  
As a result of the misadventure with the drive to California, Duff lost his job as the Colonel's driver, and soon thereafter found himself in Viet Nam, driving a 2.5 ton truck for an Air Defense Artillery unit at Bien Hoa Airbase.  Due to the size of the air base, and his job, he never had to be involved in serious combat, although he did witness some harrowing events at a comfortably long range. His assigned unit was Battery B of the 6th Battalion, 56th Air Defense Artillery Regiment, a part of the corps-level support unit United States Army Republic of Vietnam (USARV).
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For it was happening even while the original Twelve were working among the people. Paul himself told the elders of the church at Ephesus some dire news (Acts 20:29–30):
  
[[File:56ADARegtDUI.jpg|thumb|100px|56th ADA Regiment]]
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''For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.''
  
Duff told me that he only fired his weapon, an M14, one time during any form of combat in his tour of duty.  Through a lot of smoke and dust one or more Viet Cong guerillas were sighted, and he fired, but he said he didn't know if he hit any of them.
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Later Paul wrote to the church in Thessalonia that the second coming of the Lord would not come until an apostasy occurred:
  
There was a time when his deaf ear came into play in a dramatic way.  One morning he had been sleeping peacefully on his good ear, but when he turned over, he was suddenly wakened by the sound of nearby explosions.  He saw that his barracks was empty, and fearing that the enemy might have broken into the airbase, he quickly donned his boots and trousers, put on his helmet, and rushed outside with his M14 held at the ready.  When he emerged he found his barracks-mates sitting on the sandbag revetments surrounding the barracks, drinking beer and eating snacks as they watched the Bien Hoa Air Base ammo dump go up in smoke and explosions. A Viet Cong rocket barrage had set things off, and it was quite a fireworks show.  His buddies were very amused at his sudden appearance as if ready for combat, and ribbed him about it many times in the coming weeks.
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''Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;''
  
Among the interesting things he did as a 2 1/2 ton truck driver for the air defense artillery was one time painting his truck pink, and on another occasion, having become annoyed at the truck's wimpy engine, he stole a larger engine designed for a 5-ton truck and somehow managed to fit it into the engine compartment of his smaller truck. He apparently had the fastest deuce-and-a-half in the US Army at that point.  Unfortunately the Army was not particularly amused by any of this, and as soon as his pink truck was discovered he was made to repaint it olive drab.  I understood that he managed to keep his truck super-powered for a time, but that was eventually discovered, too, and had to be put back in its "proper" state.
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Now I ask you, which apostate church existed when Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, and John Calvin began the Protestant Reformation? The Catholic and Orthodox Churches, of course. And if those churches were apostate or false, how could the Protestants claim to be otherwise? For they were mere offshoots from the same poisoned tree. I grant you that they were sincere, believing in the rightness of their causes, and I admire their devotion. But did they possess divine authority to restore the Church of Christ from what they called apostate and fallen? They never claimed it, to the best of my understanding; they just did what they felt was needed to break away from what they saw as the errors of the prevailing church. But how could they correct those errors if they didn’t know what the actual errors were? They had been taught all their lives something other than the full truth — by their own rebellion admitting that the full truth was not in their previous church — and how were they to receive that truth if they didn’t know what it was?
  
===Awards, Decorations and Badges===
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When the Apostle Peter healed the lame man at the Temple, he saw that those who witnessed it marveled at the miracle. But he told them that he himself was not the source of the miracle, but the Lord Jesus Christ, whom they had had crucified. He admonished them as follows (Acts 2:19–21):
  
[[File:ArmyPFC.png|thumb|100px|Private First Class]]
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''Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.''
[[File:DVElliotMedals.png|thumb|Donovan's military decorations: National Defense Service Medal; Vietnam Service Medal; Republic of Vietnam Service Medal]]
 
  
At the end of his two year's service in 1967 he returned home to the United States. Actually, since his mother was then living in Toronto, Canada due to his stepfather Don Clark's employment, he went there instead. Although it was a warm summer in Toronto, Duff had to wear sweaters because after the heat of Viet Nam, it was too cold for him -- at least until he acclimated to it. Duffy was honorably discharged at the rank of Private First Class (PFC), having received the following:
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Here Peter tells us that the Lord’s return would not occur before a time of “restitution of all things.” And how can something be restored, save it be lost or taken away first? And when was that loss to have taken place? Possible answers include during the Protestant Reformation, but also earlier, before the Catholic and Orthodox churches even existed.
  
* National Defense Medal
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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has proclaimed that it is the “restitution of all things.” The Prophet Joseph Smith received a manifestation of the Father and the Son calling him to be the agent of that restoration. And while one might want to skeptical about the claim (it is rather extraordinary, after all), evidence is provided for the test. As they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
* Vietnam Service Medal
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That evidence is the Book of Mormon. The story of its being brought forth is a story of direct divine intervention, and if it truly is what it says it is, then it testifies as to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints being the “restitution of all things” that was prophesized as the precursor of the second coming of our Lord for the second time.
* Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal
 
* Army Meritorious Unit Commendation (for 6th Bn [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/56th_Air_Defense_Artillery_Regiment 56th ADA]). [[File:ArmyMeritoriousUnitCommendation.png|100px]]
 
* Sharpshooter (M-14 Rifle) [[File:SharpshooterRifleQualBadge.png|100px]]
 
* Overseas Service Bars (2) [[File:ArmyOSServiceBar2.png|100px]]
 
  
===References===
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What is the source of wisdom? Try this (James 1:5):
  
Back to main article: [[Donovan Elliott#Military_Service|Donovan V. Elliott, Jr]]
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''If any of you lack wisdom, '''let him ask of God''', that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.''
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The Book of Mormon itself contains its own test, in the form of a promise (Moroni 10:4,5):
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''And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.''
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But merely asking flippantly or without sincerity will not suffice, for James also writes (James 1:6,7):
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''But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.  For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.''

Revision as of 16:14, 13 March 2024

The website Quora.com was created as a kind of Q&A site where people can ask questions and be answered by those are interested to answer. There are a lot of questions on that site that ask rather disingenuous questions about controversial topics, including about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The following is one such that I answered. To see my answer on Quora itself, follow this link: Quora.com

The Question

Did you know that the Bible says that toward the end of times there will be false religions like Latter Day Saints?

My Answer

The Book of Revelation in the Bible referred to the churches in Asia, and had warnings against apostasy to say about every one of them.

The point is, the church organization that existed by the time John the Revelator wrote down the words of the Apocalypse of John (another name for the Book of Revelation), did not include the Catholic or the Orthodox churches, the Baptists, the Presbyterians, the Methodists, the Lutherans, or any of those others. They quite simply didn’t exist yet.

So it should be apparent that if there were to be false religions as the Lord in Matthew 24:24 indicates:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

…any of the post-John Christian churches that grew up could in fact be false religions, in the terms of Matthew 24:24. And you can’t even use the Nicene Creed to distinguish true from false, because that creed was developed by a council of bishops and others who lived hundreds of years after John. How could you know whether they themselves did not constitute a false religion? Merely because they are accepted as authoritative? And by whom?

For it was happening even while the original Twelve were working among the people. Paul himself told the elders of the church at Ephesus some dire news (Acts 20:29–30):

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Later Paul wrote to the church in Thessalonia that the second coming of the Lord would not come until an apostasy occurred:

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Now I ask you, which apostate church existed when Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, and John Calvin began the Protestant Reformation? The Catholic and Orthodox Churches, of course. And if those churches were apostate or false, how could the Protestants claim to be otherwise? For they were mere offshoots from the same poisoned tree. I grant you that they were sincere, believing in the rightness of their causes, and I admire their devotion. But did they possess divine authority to restore the Church of Christ from what they called apostate and fallen? They never claimed it, to the best of my understanding; they just did what they felt was needed to break away from what they saw as the errors of the prevailing church. But how could they correct those errors if they didn’t know what the actual errors were? They had been taught all their lives something other than the full truth — by their own rebellion admitting that the full truth was not in their previous church — and how were they to receive that truth if they didn’t know what it was?

When the Apostle Peter healed the lame man at the Temple, he saw that those who witnessed it marveled at the miracle. But he told them that he himself was not the source of the miracle, but the Lord Jesus Christ, whom they had had crucified. He admonished them as follows (Acts 2:19–21):

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Here Peter tells us that the Lord’s return would not occur before a time of “restitution of all things.” And how can something be restored, save it be lost or taken away first? And when was that loss to have taken place? Possible answers include during the Protestant Reformation, but also earlier, before the Catholic and Orthodox churches even existed.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has proclaimed that it is the “restitution of all things.” The Prophet Joseph Smith received a manifestation of the Father and the Son calling him to be the agent of that restoration. And while one might want to skeptical about the claim (it is rather extraordinary, after all), evidence is provided for the test. As they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That evidence is the Book of Mormon. The story of its being brought forth is a story of direct divine intervention, and if it truly is what it says it is, then it testifies as to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints being the “restitution of all things” that was prophesized as the precursor of the second coming of our Lord for the second time.

What is the source of wisdom? Try this (James 1:5):

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

The Book of Mormon itself contains its own test, in the form of a promise (Moroni 10:4,5):

And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

But merely asking flippantly or without sincerity will not suffice, for James also writes (James 1:6,7):

But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.